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How would you describe yourself? Who is Roger?
A few words come to mind: adventurous, futurist (although I am
trying to appreciate and spend more time in the present!), friend,
husband, optimist, fun- loving.
What are you working on now?
I'm working as Manager of Talent Management in a major
multinational company, which involves ensuring that we attract,
retain, develop and engage people to the best of our ability. This
helps individuals get the most from their current roles and
potential future roles. A lot of my work includes one-to-one time
with people but also dealing with very senior leaders in the
business so relationship building and influencing are key.
However, without a doubt the most important resource I have is the
passion for what I do. I work in a team of 5, and we primarily
concentrate on key talent within the organization, covering all
continents and generally director-level and above.
I cycle to and from work - 1 hour and 20 minute each way. In
the morning I spend 2 hours on the phone and on email catching up
with day to day stuff. Then I'll probably spend about 3 hours of
the day in one-to-ones with people. The rest of the day is spent
on planning and updates with my boss and colleagues.
I feel my work challenges me and that all my skill sets and
potential are being realised. What doesn't necessarily get covered
is the more spiritual, which is more difficult (but not
impossible) to find in corporations. The one-to-ones are usually
what I look forward to most in my day, it makes me feel like I'm
making the world a better place with what I'm doing. I genuinely
believe if you can help people be happy and motivated in what they
do for a living it helps them have happier and more fulfilled
lives - the knock-on effect to the people they meet is very
positive and encouraging. It feels a bit of an inconvenience to
have to work for someone else, but that feeling will always be
there as I have a strong value for 'freedom' (which needs to be
balanced with wanting to learn and availing of exposure to vast
experience and resources that a company of this size can provide).
Longer term I will be very surprised if I am not my own boss /
self- employed.
In addition to my 'day-job', I'm also engrossed in property
development. Our aim is financial independence, and we've worked
out how much passive revenue we need to have the lifestyle we
want. We aim to achieve this mainly through property. I spend
about 1 ½ hours at home every evening researching properties,
attempting to find ones that are good value, which are priced
below market value. I then buy the property and pay someone to do
it up, and then rent it out. Researching is one part of it, then
once you have purchased something, then your time goes into
dealing with mortgage brokers, builders, plumbers, real estate
agents. We're currently about a 1/3 way to where we want to be
with 3 properties in the portfolio. The reason behind wanting
financial independence is that my most valuable resource is my
time and I want to be able to spend this helping others who don't
have access to all of the great personal development resources
that are often reserved only for those who can afford them.
I read a lot, books on philosophy, books on spirituality, a lot
of personal development books, property development books, books
on success, coaching and inspirational books like those by Paulo
Coelho. Any biographies I can get my hands on.
And I do a lot of courses too, some self-financed and some paid
for by work. I've recently done courses on career counselling,
advanced facilitation and being a 'corporate athlete' (exploring
optimum energy management / performance in the work place). Later
in the year I'm doing one on inspirational leadership, and how to
bring your true self to your role.
What has been your journey to what you are doing now?
Growing up I loved business, I enjoyed buying and selling things.
I was always creative about how I could get the money I needed to
make my little dreams happen, for example travel / holidays, music
and sports gear.
We didn't have a careers counsellor at school, so as my family
were pushing the college route, it felt like studying economics,
business and social studies would make sense. I did love it.
Although thinking back on it, it was the people I enjoyed,
although I did quite well with my coursework too. However, coming
out of university, the business world had lost some of its appeal.
I felt more entrepreneurial, and sitting somewhere in a suit was
not appealing.
I loved the idea of travelling though, and got an interview
with an airline (BA). It was one of the only career stands I'd
been attracted to. But then I was talking to my brother, and he
said I should consider doing accountancy, as it was one of the
best qualifications in business I could get. If I wanted to
travel, I could do that with a chartered accountancy degree. So I
got an interview with one of the 'Big 5' accountancy firms in
Dublin. The only problem was that it was on the same day as the BA
one, which I ended up delaying. But I got offered the accountancy
job almost straight away. It was a difficult decision, but I
thought here is a job many would love to have secured and in four
years time once qualified I will have freedom to travel the world
and make good money; it just seemed like the right thing to do.
So I spent four years there - with mixed emotions. On the plus
side, I met some of my best friends there, including my wife
Sheila. I learned A LOT about business. But I also have some of
the most painful memories of my career. I'd normally work 60 hour
weeks, then I'd have to do 3 hour lectures on Wednesday nights and
Saturday mornings, and do horrendously hard exams each summer. A
lot of the values and culture went against what I stood for; there
was not a lot of freedom, not a lot of entrepreneurial spirit, or
a great incentive to help the development of others. The ruthless
ambition of senior managers also didn't really agree with me
(allied to the nature of what the company stood for and what it
'achieved' for or offered to, life).
During those years, I also noticed that I was drinking and
eating a lot more. In general, I was not as happy and optimistic a
person as I usually am and wanted to be. So once I finished my
exams, I resigned and moved to Australia. I earned plenty doig
contract accounting work on an hourly late, only worked 6 months
of that year and in general was loving life (but not caring what I
did in work - or even think about it after 5pm!). Sheila and I
went travelling through Southeast-Asia together for 3-4 months.
Our aim was to move to New York, but we came to London first, with
the aim to be here 2 years, and now 7 ½ years later we're still
here.
When we got here, I joined the company I am still at today as a
contract accountant, with the aim to save money to pay off
previous and save for future travels. I had no intention of going
permanent. But I really liked the culture of the company, and
thought this could be what I've been waiting for: l'm actually
enjoying my job... I thought. I worked in corporate finance for
about 3 years. But a year in, I noticed that there was still
something wrong. But I tried to distract myself from these
thoughts, and I'd live it up at evenings and weekends not thinking
about it. But I felt there was a big mismatch between my work and
this other life. I respected the individuals I worked with, but it
was not an environment that I wanted to spend my time in. I felt
like I had so much more potential, more to offer, like something
was being wasted. What if this is me at 45?
I knew that I wanted to give everything that I have to my work,
and that if I was going to devote my energy, I wanted to do it
properly. I wanted to make a change, and we agreed we would find a
way to make it financially (at his stage it's worth noting Sheila
had also changed her career to become an actress!). Whatever the
career is that I wanted to do, I'd just go for it, no matter how
far fetched.
I explored loads of options - whatever it was I was going to go
for it, including things like tree surgery! I would look for
people doing the types of roles I thought would appeal, I'd talk
to them, read books. I also explored franchising, but still felt
like something was missing - we only have certain amount of time
on this earth, why spend it setting up a Starbucks?
So I got to the question of: what drives me? Early in life it
was the excitement of being involved with business. Looking back
of course so much of this was also motivated by what I could get a
job doing (and paid for). On reflection I still liked being
involved in 'business' but it was being with people, excitement of
everyone working together for something. At the core I realised it
was helping people live up to their full potential. Thinking about
it I realised that I had loads of examples of having helped
people, that this is what I had a passion and a gift for, but I
hadn't put my finger on it, nor had I thought that I could make a
living from it.
Somebody named it life coaching - I looked into it and it was
as if time had stopped. I couldn't believe people were doing this.
This was absolutely me. I researched it and realised that
everything about it appealed. I found NLP (Neuro-Linguistic
Programming) and thought: 'this is amazing'. I'd been trying to
work this out in my head for years. Life completely changed then.
It just felt like this was the route that I was meant to go down.
It's sometimes scary to think how in the dark I was, and how
easily I could have stayed there. I had loads of people around me
with the attitude of: this is what life deals you, it is what it
is, and to change now is more difficult than not to. It's funny,
when I was going into accountancy people said I'd never make it
through the training / exams as I was so unsuited to it. Then when
I was well into my career in finance they started telling me I
couldn't leave!
It's such a shame as there are plenty of people in the same
situation and the way I see it, there is a lot of wasted potential
out there.
I was still in finance at this time. But I decided to take a
NLP Master Practitioner Course to be a Life Coach. I had to use up
all of my holidays for 1½ years and 8000 pounds of my own money.
We were just about to get married and postponing holidays was not
ideal, but my work wouldn't pay or accommodate it as it was too
far off my role.
At the end of the course I knew I wanted to find a job doing
this, but didn't want to be a life coach full- time. I was going
to find a job doing this stuff, even if it meant working in a
training company at half salary if need be. But first I thought to
explore options in the company I was already in. I realised I
needed to find a mentor in the international side of the business.
He didn't quite understand exactly what I was looking for, but he
put me in touch with several people, through whom I got a tip to
contact yet another person, someone in HR. I called this lady 5
times, but she never returned my calls. So I kept pestering. I so
needed to talk to her, I wasn't embarassed about what she thought.
She finally answered. She realised how passionate I was, she was
just studying NLP herself, and it turned out that someone in her
team was going on maternity leave. She said it would be a big jump
for me and a risk for them, but come for an interview. I
researched the whole area (recruitment and talent management) -
and got the job! This is one of the happiest memories! I knew thus
was the first step to a new career and path in life. It was only a
secondment, but in 6 months they restructured, and a job came up
running the recruitment team and doing talent management. It was a
promotion, and I got it. I did this for 1 ½ years. And 18 months
ago I got my current role, which is really what I wanted, a pure
talent management position, doing leadership development work.
How do you see the future?
Exciting. With family. In the west coast of Ireland. Being
self-employed. Having more time off, but the time I am working
being very motivated and in flow. A lot of one-to-one coaching.
Focusing on the customers who need it but can't really afford it.
Like teachers for example. Or kids, disadvantaged kids. I think
we'll move back in about 3 years...
Would you do anything differently?
I would. In school, I would have asked for a career counsellor. A
friend of the family was a career counsellor. I think it would
have affected what I did in college - as I think I would have gone
to study psychology. Also, I would not have gone for 'presumed'
job security or listened to people's fears of what you can or
cannot get a job from. I think this clouded my judgement early on.
What advice would you give to other people in similar
situations as you were in?
· · Be patient. Get to know yourself (what really drives and
motivates you, honestly). Consider what your options are. What
have you got that will help you get to where you want to go.
There's no rush, you are better off making the right decision
· Look at the resources you have in a different way. You are
not just in accounting or in sales - what are the skills and
experience that you have? A lot are directly transferable.
Influencing, communicating - a lot of things that I did in
accounting were needed in HR.
· Talk to people! Meet as many people as you possibly can and
talk about and explore with them what you'd like to do. Everybody
is happy to meet, and people love to talk about themselves. I
could have been applying for jobs until the cows came home, but I
couldn't have got the first right job without talking to the right
people. It was clear that I was passionate and motivated, which
could be heard but not transmitted in a CV. Don't worry about the
set-backs. For me it was the last conversation that made things
happen. I kept thinking that this was going to happen and pictured
what it would look like when I was doing it. It sounds strange but
I think people can pick up on that as you believe it yourself! The
more you talk about what you are passionate about the more you can
picture it and be even more convincing, so it's then not a case of
if, but when. 'What you can conceive and believe you can achieve'
as they say!
· Finally, having had to overcome numerous setbacks in the path
(from failing and repeating chartered accountancy exams to
suffering the stresses of vertical learning curves of new roles
and ways of working in HR) the best advice I can give is 'never
give up'. A quote that often helps me : "The person interested in
success has to learn to view failure as a healthy, inevitable part
of the process". |